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01 January 2014 @ 03:03 am
Okay, so I promise I'll post a real Countdown reflection (I hesitate to call it report because especially since I don't know half the groups I won't remember the song names or what was performed in what order, but I'll write up the highlights according to me, as usual), but I do have to say one thing:

2014 has barely started and I can cross one thing off my bucket list: being in the arena for a Johnny's group debut announcement. In case you haven't already heard, "Johnny's West 4" (ジャニーズWEST4) is now a group, consisting of Kiriyama Akito, Nakama Junta, Shigeoka Daiki, and Kotaki Nozomu.

♞ It wasn't the people I wanted to debut
♞ What about Fujii and Kamiyama...?? And Hama-chan...?
♞ Name is super uncatchy...??
♞ I have absolutely no interest in them
♞ Johnny has officially gone senile and debuted a four-member unit that wasn't a Junior group, which is unprecedented for a non-volleyball group debut post-golden age.

♘ It wasn't the people I wanted to debut who got broken up and shafted!
♘ I will be so rich with the money I don't spend on their debut
♘ I was there when it was announced
♘ Lower likelihood of Kansai being involved in the 2015 volleyball debut (maybe?)

So there you have it! I'm actually pretty apathetic about the whole thing, but I wanted to post about it as soon as possible since I was there in the flesh when it happened! I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts, especially people who are Kansai Junior fans!

And happy 2014 from the future!
Current Mood: confusedconfused
Current Music: Hey! Say! JUMP//Ride With Me
Inezltgmars on December 31st, 2013 02:21 pm (UTC)
Ahahaha I was watching the live stream and when that happened I was like, "Welp, I know at least one person there who isn't cheering". XD

I will be so rich with the money I don't spend on their debut
ミランダ (大丈夫): Marius: onoesfaded_lace on January 2nd, 2014 12:03 am (UTC)
This comment made my night XD You know me so well. But hey, more money to spend on Sexy Zone and JUMP :Dv
Carrie: hsj; yamada ryousukekaleidoruby on December 31st, 2013 03:01 pm (UTC)
I hope you had fun at Countdown! I live streamed it, and it was so much fun to watch!

Personally, I'm really excited for the debut. I wanted Shigeoka and Kiriyama to debut together and I got my wish! Sucks for the other half of 7WEST though... D:
ミランダ (大丈夫): Yamada: :ofaded_lace on January 2nd, 2014 12:07 am (UTC)
I did! It was really amazing. We managed to somehow have second row from the stage seats, so we could see a lot of the stuff happening in the background that didn't make it onto TV.

I'm happy that a lot of my LJ friends are excited, but I'm honestly surprised at how few people seem even marginally upset about Kamiyama and Fujii. Not in a judgy way, but more like... if it was my junior group, I'd be devastated? I was hell bent on not liking Sexy Zone at first because I was so upset about B.I.Shadow, even though two members were debuting, and I know a lot of people felt the same way about them, and Ya-ya-yah, so I'm really surprised by the reaction I've seen so far. But since I'm not at all invested in Kansai, I really think I must just be missing something.
cakezpleasecakezplease on December 31st, 2013 05:01 pm (UTC)
I'm pretty surprised. I'm glad that the Akita and Junta got to debut but I was hoping that Fujii was going to debut too. :(
ミランダ (大丈夫): Keito: picturesquefaded_lace on January 2nd, 2014 12:09 am (UTC)
Yeah, I'm glad that BAD got to stick together, but I'm really surprised at the breaking up of 7West and how few fans seem to care that much about Fujii and Kamiyama. I don't know much about Kansai, but even as an outsider, I'm sad to see such an established group be broken up.
・:*+.☆yuuniverse: 08nekosogi on December 31st, 2013 06:03 pm (UTC)
..lost it at "Johnny has officially gone senile" and "I will be so rich with the money I don't spend on their debut" HAHA x'D Hope you had lots of fun at Countdown either way! ( ★ω★) I watched some of it on a stream but the quality was such shiet I decided I'd drop it... *lol*

Well I don't think I'll be 100% interested in them, but I wasn't expecting those 4 to debut together at all so I'm curious (・□・;) and I'll admit I kind of like Kotaki Nozomu and Akito so... hahaha u.u Even though my mind is lining up question marks thinking wtf is supposed to happen with the rest of 7WEST... xD

OH and happy new year! ♡ (* >ω<)
ミランダ (大丈夫): Fuma: hmmfaded_lace on January 2nd, 2014 12:11 am (UTC)
XD;; Sorry about my off-colour sense of humour, but yes! I did have fun! I was in the second row from the stage, so I got to see a lot of the background stuff that didn't make it onto the broadcast. It was super fun!

Yeah, I'm mostly shocked over 7West. I follow Kansai Juniors or anything, but to me, seeing them being broken up was really sad and unexpected.

Thank you! You too!
・:*+.☆yuuniverse: 02nekosogi on January 6th, 2014 05:07 pm (UTC)
*sorry about the delayed reply u.u* That sounds really fun, I'm happy to hear you enjoyed it~ *^^*

asdfghjkl; I don't really know how to feel about 7west because I really liked them ~~back then~~ but recently idk they just haven't been doing it for me. (◎_◎;) I am sad that they're being broken up because I loved them together but at the same time I can't bring myself to have a strong reaction to this. :/ I just hope they're not going to leave the rest of 7west to rot now or whatever, because even though I'm not as emotionally invested into 7west as a whole as I used to be, I still really like the individual members... (´A`)

┐( ̄ヮ ̄)┌ Well, I was expecting them to debut alone, but at least B.A.D wasn't brutally separated? That's positive I guess... maybe. xD

Edited at 2014-01-06 09:07 pm (UTC)
ミランダ (大丈夫): Fuma: hmmfaded_lace on January 6th, 2014 07:37 pm (UTC)
No worries. ^^ I know how RL can be. But it was fun~ I'm glad I could be there in person.

Yeah, as someone who doesn't follow Kansai Jrs at all, I just feel like those two must feel hurt and sad and left behind. But yeah, it's a good thing they didn't break up BAD. I just feel like if they wanted a Kansai debut it could have been done better than this.
rorychanrorychan on December 31st, 2013 06:18 pm (UTC)
I am super happy about the debut but super sad about the break up of 7WEST. My two favorites are ShigeDaiki and Kamiyama, so I am split. But BAD have been deserving a debut for the longest time because they have worked so hard for so many years.
ミランダ (大丈夫): Shori: shyfaded_lace on January 2nd, 2014 12:12 am (UTC)
I'm glad that you're happy, but yeah, I really just am shocked and, from the point of view of an outsider, sort of upset over 7West. I'm confused as to why they didn't debut them as 6, at the very least. But I'm happy for all my KanJu fan friends.
xanithofdragonsxanithofdragons on January 1st, 2014 10:48 am (UTC)
I'm mostly excited about Johnny's West 4, since it has most of my favorite Kansai Jrs. in it, but I was pretty surprised that it was only 4 of them. And then there's the breaking up of 7 West. But after thinking about it for a while, I realized that the 2 from 7 West who aren't debuting are the ones who're going to be in SHARK, and I feel like that has to mean something even if I don't know what.

I do think there's certain advantages to debuting a smaller group every once in a while (especially with 2020 in the future). But yeah, the name's kind of weird. It seems appropriately Johnny's-ish, but it almost seems too plain? But it also makes me want to giggle whenever I say it, which I guess is also true of most recent Johnny's group names.
ミランダ (大丈夫): Hokuto: osharefaded_lace on January 2nd, 2014 12:02 am (UTC)
Well, the two who didn't get debuted being in SHARK is essentially the same as the two who didn't debut from B.I.Shadow being put in Bakaleya, so I don't think it really means that much besides that they're popular enough that the management wants to use them for something. After all, Hokuto and Yugo didn't get a debut or anything like that. But I'm glad to hear most Kansai fans are excited.

I'm mostly shocked because there hasn't been a debut of less than five in more than ten years, and besides duos, even longer than that. I don't like to put too much stock into 2020 actually happening, since seven years is a long time, especially for someone who's more than 80 years old, and I honestly think that four is sort of an awkward number, since even numbers under eight are aesthetically displeasing (at least in terms of visual arts) and the more members means more fans from their junior days and more chances for new fans who like different types of people, but... I guess I'll just have to see? As someone who isn't a Kansai fan, I'm mostly looking at this pretty objectively, rather than with strong feelings, so I'm sure there's a lot that I'm missing.

I still think the name is silly though XD; Though I guess it's not that different from Kanjani8
xanithofdragonsxanithofdragons on January 2nd, 2014 10:36 am (UTC)
That makes sense. Since SHARK was announced before Johnny's West 4 was, I was probably thinking about it backwards from how it was actually decided.

I kind of interpreted 2020 as a response to the popularity of the 48 groups in a way, and since who's popular in female idols seems to shift faster than who's popular in male idols, I really expect their popularity to have passed well before then so people aren't really sure why anyone thought up of 2020 by then. ^^;

I haven't been a Kansai Jr. fan for very long, so my feelings probably aren't as strong about it as some other fans' would be, and if I were to say what I was most invested in, I care more about BAD as a unit and only individual members of 7 West more than I care about 7 West as a unit, just in who's caught my attention so far. So I think about this group in a, "not what I was expecting but still gives me most of what I want" way.

Their name is kind of... uncreative? for a Johnny's name. But at the same time, it's not like Kanjani8 or Kinki Kids were creative names either, so maybe Kansai groups just get really straightforward names. xD
ミランダ (大丈夫): Jun: thougtfulfaded_lace on January 2nd, 2014 10:59 am (UTC)
Yeah, I really feel like big debuts like that must be decided a long time before they actually happen. Since Kotaki was ready in the kankeisha at Countdown while Fujii and Kamiyama weren't present, I have to think they all knew. An interview with Yabu has revealed that he knew long beforehand that Ya-ya-yah would be broken up and he and Hikaru would be put with JUMP, too. So... I feel like the whole thing with SHARK is pretty comparable to Bakaleya.

I mean, I definitely see it that way, too XD; So that's why I don't think 2020 is ever going to come to fruition. It was Johnny's idea, and I highly doubt Johnny will be able to be fully active in a managerial position at 88 years old, even if he is still kicking. But who even knows... I guess I'll just hope that they'll realize abandoning the small to mid-sized group platform that got them so far is a bad idea by then. XD;;

I see. I honestly don't mean to criticize anyone, and if my friends are happy, then I'm happy for them, but it just honestly was surprising to me, from the way I personally see Johnny's. In case it hasn't been clear from all these comments, the idea of "the group" is really important to the way I enjoy Johnny's, and so when groups are broken apart, even when I know it necessarily has to happen sometimes, it's still upsetting to me. And I don't even like 7West! XD;;

Fair enough! When they announced the debut I immediately thought "oh, they're copying Kanjani8" XD;
xanithofdragonsxanithofdragons on January 2nd, 2014 11:59 am (UTC)
Yeah, it definitely seemed like at the very least the 4 debuting were informed before the announcement so they knew why they were there (and honestly with the split-up, it'd be too awkward if they were informed on the spot).

I tend to think that around 5-6 members is kind of the sweet spot, with anything more than that a bit harder to balance and anything in the double digits to be way too many. With larger groups, it seems harder to have a solid group dynamic or even a real group identity, so yeah, I'm really hoping 2020 doesn't actually happen, or even if it does, for it to kind of fade away after the olympics or split into more reasonably sized units.

I've seen people upset by 7 West splitting up, but it's kind of mixed in with people who're sad that older Kansai Jrs. got passed over, and it all seems a bit more focused on the other members not getting to debut than on the group splitting up for the debut. But I also get the feeling that a lot of fans are just so excited over any Kansai Jrs. debuting even if it's not exactly in the form they wanted it.
ミランダ (大丈夫): Nikaido: contemplativefaded_lace on January 2nd, 2014 12:20 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I agree, though what happened with Ebi when KisuMai's debut was announced was pretty darn awkward... >__>;; So idk how much Johnny's cares about sparing others' feelings, but yeah.

Yeah, I guess I'd say more like 5-10 is a good number, with the right management, especially after time. I agree with you that balance and identity are important, but as a JUMP fan, I think that they actually have managed to maintain those things and have also had advantages to a large group, like not having drama between two members because there are plenty of others to buffer everyone out, which I think is a problem in groups of five or six who are really just stuck with the same members day in and day out. But more than 10 is definitely out of the question, and I honestly would feel bad for the kids stuck in a 40 member unit since basically about 35 of them would never get any promotion whatsoever. So yeah, I really agree with you on that.

I think it's pretty hard for people not to focus on that sort of thing, though. Debuts are few and far between, and for me, the disappointment outweighs the happiness if a few people I like debut and others I like are left behind, especially at first. It really hurts to have someone you're a fan of passed over for debut while others in their junior unit are debuted, and I think a lot of people sort of feel like they'll have forever with the debuted ones now, but their days being able to enjoy the undebuted ones may be numbered. I guess it just varies, because I feel like most of the people on my flist, etc, had a sort of feeling of "well, it sucks for Fujii and Kamiyama, but oh well." I know I'm really abnormal, because a large percent of the time, I'm a fan of the underdog, but I really just felt bad for those two to see so few people, be it the fans standing around me at countdown or the Japanese fans on twitter or the people LJ or the bloggers across the internet, spare much thought for them.

But I know that my feelings are really coloured by my own opinions and experiences, so... I think I just need to step back and ignore the whole thing for now. XD; I'm not a Kansai-anything fan, so at the end of the day, what I think definitely is secondary.

Sorry that I keep posting so many words >__>;; Thanks for always putting up with my wordiness and having detailed conversations with me, though! XD;
xanithofdragonsxanithofdragons on January 2nd, 2014 01:43 pm (UTC)
Yeah, they might not care much about sparing others' feelings, but I think they at least want to give them enough prep to get them to put a happy face on for tv. ^^;

Sorry that it wasn't clear in that when I was talking about balance and identity I meant more in the 40+ members category. But yeah, I see what you mean about more members being able to buffer drama.

I agree that the overall response to the debut announcement seems oddly skewed towards the positive side all things considered. But I guess time will tell with this group, both in whether the negative feelings might come out later, and how everything goes for them with debut.

I think I stick with lj even though so many other social media sites are out there partially for the wordiness and the conversations like these. On a lot of other platforms, this depth of conversation isn't really possible either because of the platform limiting how much you can say (e.g. twitter) or the culture kind of discouraging it (e.g. tumblr). So I'm really glad when people are active on lj and open to these kinds of discussions.
ミランダ (大丈夫): Fuma: hmmfaded_lace on January 2nd, 2014 10:38 pm (UTC)
Fair enough XDD

Ah okay, yeah. I mean, I think it's valid to say it's hard for, say, a 15 member group or something to have as much identity and balance as a 5 or 6 member one, so I wasn't doubting that XD Just that I think JUMP is pretty okay, too. And in terms of balance, a lot of time it's a management marketing choice rather than that they can't give everyone screen time.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I also wonder if the feeling of desperation for a Kansai debut, like you mentioned earlier, might also have something to do with it. But... only time will tell what will happen, I guess.

I basically agree with you 100%, and I'm happy to hear you say that! I hate tumblr and twitter and essentially don't use them for that reason, and it really bothers me that so much of fandom seems to have shifted from wanting to put any thought or feeling into what they do anymore. So I'm also really glad when people are active on LJ and want to have these kinds of lengthy discussions! ♥
xanithofdragonsxanithofdragons on January 3rd, 2014 12:15 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I totally agree that it's often management more than numbers that affect balance, since I've known groups with the same or more members that give each member screen time better than some mid-size groups, and some small-size groups with only like one member who gets any attention.

I still use twitter because it's often useful for getting information fast and for short, quick interactions, but I used tumblr for like a year and then got totally bored with it because the level of interaction amongst users seemed so super low. And it felt really disorganized sometimes too. On lj, it's so much easier to actually get to know a person (if they're at least somewhat active).
ミランダ (大丈夫): Keito: picturesquefaded_lace on January 4th, 2014 12:29 am (UTC)
Twitter stresses me out too much, because everything is so real-time, and if you miss a conversation or something, you just miss it. On LJ, if you don't have time to respond to a comment, or want to think first, it's okay to wait. But yeah, I really feel the same way about tumblr. It also is a really easy way to steal things by reblogging parts of translations or out-of-context images without any credit or linking back to the original. I feel like actually, when a few lines of a translation get reblogged, sometimes people who don't speak Japanese and don't really understand the situation get the wrong idea, and then things get complicated. And I definitely agree that it's much easier to get to know someone on LJ, especially when a lot of people on tumblr use tumblr to get out of any accountability for their actions.
xanithofdragonsxanithofdragons on January 4th, 2014 02:39 am (UTC)
I know what you mean. There are a lot of times when I think about replying to a tweet I've seen, but decide not to because it's from several hours before. Or if I tweet when none of my followers are on, I don't get any feedback.

In the end, I think I couldn't identify with the culture of tumblr as a whole. The way I want to do fandom and interact with people on the internet is not the way fandom works on tumblr or the way people interact (when they interact at all) on tumblr.
ミランダ (大丈夫): Shori: shyfaded_lace on January 4th, 2014 02:47 am (UTC)
Yup, I feel exactly the same way about tumblr. So I'm really glad there's more people who feel that way out there! Nothing annoys me more than when people scoff at me and tell me "fandom's all on tumblr" like I'm stupid for staying on LJ. Sigh.