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05 March 2014 @ 05:42 pm
"gamushara" is definitely one word for it...  
So apparently this is a thing. And I'm stoked! I guess it's a replacement for Johnny's Junior Land? But hey, who cares, because Reia is in the cast list. For the first time in... a really long time? But more than that (or at least of equal value, but still Reia-related) is just who's on the cast list. Let's take a look...
(ジェシー/岩橋玄樹/神宮寺勇太/髙橋海人/松村北斗/中村嶺亜/安井謙太郎 他)
■ Johnny's Jr.
(Jesse /Iwahashi Genki /Jinguji Yuta /Takahashi Kaito /Matsumura Hokuto /Nakamura Reia /Yasui Kentaro, others)

So let's see. That's Hokuto and Jesse, one other representative of the older group (no clue why not two but I'm guessing the Bakaleya guys have too much life going on and Hagiya wasn't worth mentioning?), two Sexy Boyz, and... what's that now? TWO FROM REIA3???

That's right! It looks like Reia3 (as I'm calling them until Johnny's gets off their ass and gives them a real group name) ranked as being of equal importance to Sexy Boyz. J.J.Express, anyone? In other words, I really feel like this supports the hypothesis I made here. With Sexy Boyz filling the spot of the necessarily 4-member junior unit and Reia in a spot where he's not threatened by Jinguji and Genki's popularity and can shine in his own right, for once, I'm actually genuinely feeling... almost optimistic about this. I know that in Johnny's, it's best to always keep one's hopes at a bare minimum, but... well... if nothing else, I'm going to silently cheer for Reia.

However, what I'm less thrilled about is that apparently, there's not going to be any fanclub balloting for Gamushara J's Party 2. What is that supposed to mean, exactly? That the fanclub being "under construction" currently has finally gotten in the way of ballots? But Junior fanclub members can still ballot for stageplays and Sexy Zone's new tour. That Johnny's is trying to come closer to being like AKB and is giving everyone a shot at tickets? That really just goes against everything that Johnny's has ever been, and while honestly, I was already planning on buying my tickets secondhand, anyway... it sets my teeth on edge just a little. Sometimes shit in Johnny's just means Johnny's can't get their crap together, but sometimes it means something more, and things like this will always make me anxious.

Does anyone know what faction TV Asahi is? I know they're airing a drama with Ohno soon, but besides that, all I can think of offhand that they show is Music Station, which is pretty neutral in my experience...?

...and I've been trying not to say anything about this because wank will be wank, but I do have to say I'm happy Ijima is taking a hit by Jin leaving Johnny's~ Suck it, Ijima.
Current Mood: coldcold
Current Music: Sexy Zone//Soba ni iru yo
doctoggydoctoggy on March 5th, 2014 05:34 am (UTC)
I just want an ABC-Z fan club. With their cd. And no fan club I get anxious.
But yay for happy juniors things you like.
ミランダ (大丈夫): Chinen: musingfaded_lace on March 5th, 2014 10:20 am (UTC)
Aww. :( I don't think it's necessarily been so long that it's worrying for ABC-Z? Sexy Zone's only got announced less than a year ago, and they debuted a little earlier and are sort of in a different course than ABC-Z... and with You&J, there were groups with joint fanclubs for years, right? So... hopefully they'll get their own soon. ^^;

Thanks ^^;
britkit27britkit27 on March 5th, 2014 05:58 am (UTC)
Heeeey, look at that a juniors show I can actually watch as it airs! With a chunk of people I like! :DD Yay! And I'm glad that things are moving more or less along with your hypothosis, as well~ That's encouraging, johnnys being johnnys aside.

...the balloting is super wierd, though. Waku Waku was randomly open balloting this past year as well, though I doubt that signifies anything. They're still re-working the fanclub? How long have they been doing that for now? I feel like it's been ages, but I could be wrong...
ミランダ (大丈夫): Keito: picturesquefaded_lace on March 5th, 2014 10:17 am (UTC)
It's at 2 am, just... letting you know. XD; The cast list is also probably utter bullshit knowing Johnny's; more likely Jesse and Hokuto won't be on that often and there will be episodes with younger ones as well, but... who knows. XD At any rate, I really hope I'm not getting ahead of myself. If they break my heart with Reia... I'm just... going to never recover.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Arashi's major charity event in Tokyo Dome being open balloting was probably unrelated to this tiny Junior event that only really intense fans would want to go to being open balloting, considering that they basically have nothing in common besides the agency. The fanclub has been in renewal for like half a year now, maybe? I really don't know what's up.
S: Jinchan: I look so goodyomimashou on March 5th, 2014 08:24 pm (UTC)
Excited for this show~ And glad they at least put in on a weekend night |D

And yeah, annoyed that we can't at least have a small chance of hitting for fanclub tickets... Johnny's why.
ミランダ (大丈夫): Marius: onoesfaded_lace on March 5th, 2014 08:27 pm (UTC)
Yeah, definitely |D;;; So we can at least watch most of the time.

More than for my situation personally, it worries me about the overall message. Like I said, I was pretty much resigned to buying secondhand tickets anyway, but if this means that being a fanclub member is becoming meaningless, then... what even is Johnny's? That's what worries me.
S: Shori: hm?yomimashou on March 5th, 2014 09:04 pm (UTC)
Yeah ;; It seems doubtful that Johnny's would move to a mostly open balloting system, so hopefully it was just something having to do with it being produced by TV Asahi rather than Johnny's, or something...
ミランダ (大丈夫): Shori: shyfaded_lace on March 5th, 2014 09:38 pm (UTC)
Yeah... I'll just hope for that... >__<;
Nika: Jesseracanai on March 6th, 2014 04:03 am (UTC)
I hope someone is going to sub at least snippets of that show! As a Jr fan not understanding Japanese is worse than for a fan of a debuted group. :/

JE has the fanclub under construction? For JE to change something is a bit... unbelieveable? And it's funny that Sexy Zone are still counted as Jrs.

About the last paragraph: you realize the Bakaleya boys are much likely under Ijima's care? E.g. SBK has a Kisumai member, Kasuka no Kanojo and Ando Lloyd are SMAP dramas... Just saying. I'm not taking sides in that.
ミランダ (大丈夫): Taiga: uh huhfaded_lace on March 6th, 2014 04:39 am (UTC)
Yeah, I can imagine. :/ I'm crossing my fingers for you! Hopefully someone will step up and do it... at least there were a few subs for some episodes of Johnny's Junior Land?

And yeah, the Junior fanclub has been under "renewal" for a really long time, and is taking no new applicants. I'm not really sure why or what's taking so long, it's making ballots really confusing. If you're expired, you can still ballot because they're not letting people renew, but we have to ballot separately from the people who aren't expired, so it's annoying. And Sexy Zone aren't still counted as Juniors...? I mean, they have their own fanclub now and all.

And I know this sounds a bit harsh, but I really don't care who's managed by Ijima; I still hate her methods. Sexy Zone are under Ijima too, and I love them and buy lots of copies of all their singles and go multiple times to all their shows, but it doesn't change the fact that I am absolutely opposed to Ijima's style of management. Also, as far as I've heard, Juniors aren't assigned to one or the other (Japanese fans were saying they're still managed by Johnny as of last year), but these days, it sometimes seems like Juniors as a whole (so not just Bakaleya, but everyone) are under Ijima. And I don't really know that the costars thing says all that much? Hasshi is Ijima but Chinen is Julie and Jesse was with them in Sprout; Takaki is Julie and he was in SBK, and I'm fairly sure Tackey is not Ijima, but he's costarring with Taiga currently. So... whether or not the Bakaleya guys are Ijima, my opinion is still the same. I love a lot of the people she managers, but I hate the way she manages them. That's just my personal opinion, and I'm not trying to say that everyone should agree with me, but I'm sticking to it. ^^;
Nika: Jesseracanai on March 6th, 2014 10:45 am (UTC)
Very few that I know of. But well, I've got to accept it as it is. The first time I decided to learn Japanese and actually started with it was ten years ago. If I hadn't given up and just sticked with it, I would have saved myself these kind of problems. ^^'

That already sounds confusing, how do you manage to keep track of everything? I wonder what is taking JE so long that there are expired memberships and already special rules for those. JE is a mystery to me...
Aaah, alright. I misunderstood and thought they'd be in the range of the Jrs fanclub. I don't follow them so I don't know much about them.

Oh my, I'm sorry that I've got you so riled up! I didn't mean to! ^^' And it proves I should just keep my mouth shut when I only have half-information. For a lot of groups I don't know who manages them (and honestly don't care about that), just that the members of the groups of either faction don't co-star anymore (last such co-starring I remember being Freeter). I noticed the Bakaleya boys put in Kisumai and SMAP dramas, and made my guess. But if the Jrs really still are under Johnny's personal care, I'm glad! To me it always seemed that aside from the auditions and deciding who debuts he keeps out of things for the most part. Since I've came to know about the whole Julie vs Ijima thing, the thing I kept wondering about the most is actually if there's going to change anything regarding auditions once Johnny retires, precisely if whoever succeeds him will have as good an eye as him.
"The way she manages them" meaning the group splitting in Kisumai and Sexy Zone? That's really annoying and something I get angry over with every new single. Although sadly the split in Kisumai was already there when they were still Jrs, just not as bad as it is now. :/
ミランダ (大丈夫): Yugo: well?faded_lace on March 6th, 2014 11:08 am (UTC)
Awww. Well, I'm hoping for you and for everyone that there will be some good subs! My biggest annoyance is when people sub badly, and then anyone who doesn't know Japanese starts thinking the wrong thing. It's not those people's fault at all, and it annoys me that people's sloppy work makes fandom confusing for the huge majority of people who don't speak Japanese. >__<;

Haha, yeah, I don't even know. Balloting normally is really straightforward once you get the hang of it, but this whole special online balloting for the Juniors makes no sense. I don't know what's taking so long, it's really all very mysterious... stupid Johnny's. XD; And ahh, yeah, Sexy Zone got their own fanclub last May. ABC-Z are still lumped with the Juniors, though.

Ahaha no big deal! Sorry, I guess all those years of college make me write really intensely when I want to express my strong opinions XD;; I really don't know anything about what's going on right now, since I only have 2chan and tabloids to go on, but as of mid 2013, Japanese fans were of the consensus that Juniors were still managed by Johnny directly. I think it's more likely that the Juniors are put in dramas with recently debuted talents, and the last three debuts before Johnny's West have all been Ijima (KisuMai, Sexy Zone, and ABC-Z. Notably, Johnny's West will be Julie). It's really frustrating that they don't do any work together anymore though. What bothers me more is the clear divide in variety shows and just channels in general. For example, Johnny's Countdown aired on TBS, so JUMP and NEWS were really shortchanged while KisuMai got a lot more spotlight, and the Conto show was also only Ijima, so there was no mingling with Julie's groups.

Yeah, Ijima's new signature is apparently putting a divide in groups. Sexy Zone used to be under Johnny but were switched to Ijima, and rumour has it that that's the reason there was such a big rift put in the group after they'd already been in existence for practically a year. As for KisuMai, before, I felt like it was frontmen and back-men, but now, it just feels like the group is completely torn apart, in my opinion. I basically don't think Ijima's values are where Johnny's should be focusing their attention. Ijima goes out of her way to manage solo acts like Yamapi and Jin, and focuses on marketing only the popular members. Meanwhile Julie pushes the group dynamic that's signature to Johnny's and is frankly what most people care about (seeing the members interact together), and I think her Film Festa last year really showed that she's all about the old values in Johnny's. Film Festa focused on overcoming things together as a group, respecting senpai, senpai helping kouhai, and even remembering the bond between junior groups as well as debuted groups. So that's why despite how much I love some of the groups under Ijima, I still really disagree with Ijima's choices.

I'm sorry that this comment got so long! @___@; I write way too much.
Nikaracanai on March 9th, 2014 06:53 pm (UTC)
Ah, bad subbing is tricky. That's something I don't really notice. Well, sometimes the English grammar is incorrect (which can be confusing), but if the sense of what is said is twisted I can't tell. So I just assume it is correct. ^^'

Wait, ABC-Z are still "Juniors" fanclub-wise? I thought they had their own fanclub, they are a debuted group for years by now! Oo I don't get Johnny's, not at all...

Don't worry! That's a trait I'd like to have! XD
Well, it makes sense that the Juniors are still under Johnny's personal care in lights of the drama roles. I haven't looked at it from that view point. Although SMAP isn't a recently debuted group, but I guess it's good for the popularity of the Juniors to cast them in SMAP dramas. It might only be because I'm relatively new to the Junior fandom, but I have the feeling that currently the Juniors (or, well, selected ones) are being pushed more than ever. Aside from a few popular Juniors that were in a unit existing for years, I don't recall seeing many Juniors in dramas before, let's say, 2012. Or maybe I just haven't watched the dramas that featured more Juniors.
The TV station divide is something that I already came across a few times, and I wonder why the stations take sides, or if they 'have to'.

I don't get what Ijima thinks she'll get out of pushing only the more popular group memebers and banning the rest in the second row. Maybe less costs and more income. In the end it's always about money, after all. But before Kisumai there never was a group division, and the general consens in the fandom is that it's not okay, which surely must hav reached JE in some way. On the other hand, there are lots of girls who are buying that crap (meaning the marketing strategy, not the CDs and other good, of course) and cheer only for what they got told are their favourite members while don't really caring about the rest.
Up to now I saw in Julie only the one who pushes Arashi too much. But considering the things you listed, she might be better than I thought. Still, imo she concentrates too much on Arashi - I like them, but there's a thing called over-exposure, and I have almost reached that point. Let's see how she will fair with the new group.

Oh, don't worry! I like long comments! :)
ミランダ (大丈夫): Chinen: musingfaded_lace on March 9th, 2014 07:50 pm (UTC)
Yeah, that's exactly the problem in my opinion. There's no way people who don't speak Japanese can know what's wrong, but sometimes, there's really seriously glaring errors. In my opinion, it's a really big problem, because it has people believing things that just aren't true. Even in generally good subs, there are big problems every once in a while-- for example, in the Kamen Teacher sub, there's one line that Shishimaru says where the subject and object are switched, and it changes the meaning of the sentence completely. It's really bothersome to me, because so many people don't know any Japanese and get completely wrong information. :(

ABC-Z have been debuted for 2 years as of last month; Sexy Zone are halfway to three years, so it makes sense in terms of time scale that Sexy Zone have their own fanclub and ABC-Z don't. I mean, I think ABC-Z need their own fanclub because they have a lot of fans and events, but they are the newest debuted group as of right now (since Johnny's West doesn't debut until April), so it makes sense that they're still lumped in in Juniors, out of everyone.

It's true about SMAP, which is why I sometimes feel like Ijima is taking over from Johnny in terms of Juniors. Notice that it's not just the Bakaleya guys who do stuff with SMAP, but Jinguji and Iwahashi costarred in Kasuka no Kanojo, and a lot of Juniors in that age range appeared in You Conto Shichai na. Juniors have always been in dramas, though-- I can't say if it was as frequent because I didn't live in Japan and wasn't getting all the media blasted at me all the time and I wasn't in Junior fandom until somewhat recently either, but, for example, Nakayama Yuma and Takada Sho starred with Shintaro in Battery in 2008, Nakajima Kento and Kikuchi Fuma as well as former B.I.Shadow member Takahata Misaki were in Scrap Teacher in 2008 before B.I.Shadow was a big name group-- in fact, the group was created for that drama, and even Yamada Ryosuke and Chinen Yuri did a drama each before their debut. I think the creation of the 1 am spot on NTV has definitely increased drama exposure for Juniors, but it's certainly not unheard of to have Juniors who aren't in Ya-Ya-Yah in dramas before 2012.
ミランダ (大丈夫): Jun: thougtfulfaded_lace on March 9th, 2014 07:50 pm (UTC)
There's always a certain amount of fucking with the fans in terms of "frontmen" versus "supporting members" that goes on in Johnny's groups in my personal experience. If you go back to 1999~2001, even Arashi had some dividing by age going on in costumes and positions during performances, and V6 had a huge split between ToniSen and KamiSen. There's a marketing technique to having frontmen, because you can use those frontmen as a catch-all for casual fans. If you can get a lot of teenage girls and casual adult fans spending a little bit of money on one guy whose face they think is hot, that's a lot of money that adds up. Then, if you make the diehard fans of the back-men nervous, it will make them spend more money. For example, fans of SMY2 will pour a lot of money into their member goods, TV show box sets, etc, because they want to show their support of the less popular members in order to tell the management to make them more popular. So in essence, they can get a ton of money from the die-hard fans of both the frontment (who want to support their member regardless) and the back-men (who desperately want to show their support because they think it counts more), and casual fans of the frontmen. If you push all members the same, there's less likelihood that one or two will become well-known enough for casual fans to care enough to spend the money on them.

THAT BEING SAID. Ijima's method still makes no sense to me. The method I mentioned above so far has been played out fairly well on Hey! Say! JUMP. Fans of the group still love all the members and the group has a good, well-rounded dynamic. But there are also a lot of grade school girls who will spend their allowance on Yamada, which adds a lot more income. However, with KisuMai, the more Ijima pushes them apart, the more I hear disgruntled KisuMai fans thinking of moving on. I, myself, used to be a huge KisuMai fan, but recently, I haven't had much drive to support them because watching their stuff is too upsetting to me. I don't think that it's a sustainable tactic, and I don't really understand why she does it that way, because hey claim to fame is SMAP, who essentially invented the "every member is equal" group dynamic that was more about selling the bond between members than any member alone. So Ijima's current obsession with splintering groups is really baffling to me, and it frustrates me to no end. I don't see it as being a successful technique in the end.

As for Julie, I don't really think that the Arashi thing is exactly her fault. Before Arashi, it was SMAP-- Johnny's just always has a big group that they push everywhere. Arashi is sort of in a different category right now because they're "the big thing" over here. People who don't follow Johnny's at all and have never even heard of Sexy Zone or ABC-Z pay a lot of money to see Arashi and buy their CDs, from 10 year olds to 60 year olds. They make the company a lot of money, and it would be stupid not to use that to the full extent of its ability. It's not like Julie ignores Kanjani8, here second-biggest moneymaking group, and NEWS/Tegomass have been pretty active recently. KAT-TUN are even having a comeback, and it's not exactly Julie's fault that everything went to shit with Koki and that was keeping the group from doing anything. JUMP has always been weird with their release schedule and activities ever since debut, so I don't really know what's up with them, but with Julie's techniques making a lot of sense everywhere else, I really can't think she has it out for JUMP or something. But yeah, we can only wait and see with Johnny's West. XD; Who knows what will happen with a new Kansai-based group.

That's good! I'm the queen of long comments, ahaha. Sorry again that it got even longer... it became two comments, ahhhh. @___@;;
Nika: thinkingracanai on March 12th, 2014 11:54 am (UTC)
Re: [2/2]
Well, I don't want to say anything harsh since I should be glad that there are prople out there who are willing to spend their time to do Non-Japanese-speakers a favour. And I am. Even subs containing errors get the message along what the people are talking about. That's better than nothing! And nothing can be as bad as the subs for Hissatsu Shigotonin I found which were from a Chinese DVD! XD

Oh, ABC-Z only have two years as a debuted group? I know that they debuted later than Kisumai, but somehow these two groups belong together in my mind. XD Since they are reconstucting the Jrs FC, maybe they will be split and get their own, too! About time, imo. I get that they don't give a group an own fanclub right away, but after one year would be an appropriate time.

As far as I know Ijima was more or less the set successor before suddenly Arashi gained such huge popularty and threw Julie back in the ring. Still, Jrs in Arashi dramas are very rare. Certainly being in a SMAP drama raises popularity of Jrs, or at least introduces them. But with Arashi's current popularity level putting Jrs in their dramas would save the same purpose. I don't know.
I know, I've watched some of those dramas that had Jrs in the cast, like Scrap Teacher. But still I have the feeling Jrs get more attention these days. Although that might be just my imagination.

I forgot about V6... Although ToniSen and KamiSen were made sub-groups that released CDs as well, weren't they? That's a little different, imo. Concerning Arashi I never watched the early concerts since I don't like their music from back then, but from all I know there never was an obvious frontmen thing. Of course Ohno is the lead singer and Sho is the rapper, the other three however had been in the same junior unit which might be the reason for the costumes and dance positions. During that time Ohno wasn't as popular as them.
Your argumentation makes sense. Are you by ny chance working in the marketing business? You seem good at it! XD

With Kisumai I sometimes wonder if they would have rather debuted only the frontmen, but had to pull SMY2 along since they were part of the unit. With the way SMY2 are treated it often seems like that. :/

Again, you seem to be good at marketing strategies! XD
May I protest at using the word 'comeback' for KAT-TUN? (They are my favourite debuted JE group, that's why. XD) They were just put in the background a bit, though frankly I don't understand why the group has to keep low for that long when a member leaves. Koki#s actions are not their fault either. At least it's looking upward for them when they are taking over Shounen Club Premium now!

Nothing wrong with expressing long thoughts! ^^
ミランダ (大丈夫): Chinen: musingfaded_lace on March 17th, 2014 08:28 pm (UTC)
[1/2 again]
I guess I don't think it's harsh to expect people to do accurate work? I know it seems like a small thing, but mistakes in subbing can actually lead to pretty big problems in fandom. It's really frustrating to try to argue a certain point when a bunch of people gang up and tell you you're wrong over something that's based on a mistake in a translation. Even worse, I've heard of people sending fan letters to the guys having written stuff based on wrong translations, which will only lead to the guys being confused and having a more negative view of foreign fans. I respectfully disagree with your comment that "Even subs containing errors get the message along what the people are talking about," because quite often, that's not the case. For example, missing a negative is a simple error, but there's a huge difference between, "I don't think it's okay to hit women" and "I think it's okay to hit women." Do you see what I mean? Just a few simple mistakes can make a huge difference. Mistakes happen, and I know that it's really difficult to learn Japanese, but I find that often, translators who have only been studying Japanese a short time and don't understand that well themselves attempt to take on projects that are far above their ability level. I understand your situation, and I honestly do wish there were more people willing to take on subtitling and/or translating (I wish I had more time to do it, honestly) but I feel strongly that people without at least decent Japanese abilities subbing and translating is a really sticky issue. Basically, I think this person says it really well here when she says "when you're doing it [translating] publicly, you're effectively the voice for many, many people who don't know as much Japanese as you. Even if you publicly say that you're shaky on how accurate your transcription or translation is, there are going to be a lot of people who will take what you put out as 100% truth even if it isn't 100% accurate, by the very virtue of your greater language ability. It could just be a minor nuance, or it could be a major life event that's misinterpreted because someone was talking over the key words that change the context completely. The point is, your interpretation will be the cold, hard truth to a lot of people, and I think it's really important to understand and appreciate that fact if you hope to disseminate information to other people."

But oh gosh, subs from Chinese are the worst XD Back before I was in JE, I was a fan of Prince of Tennis, and the musicals often used to be subbed from Chinese XD; They were hilarious! But they didn't make a lot of sense.

Haha yeah, ABC-Z and KisuMai both feel to me like they've ben around forever, but KisuMai debuted in August of 2011 and ABC-Z debuted in February of 2012. It would be nice if they could split ABC-Z into their own fanclub during this reconstruction! I really don't know what goes into the decision-making, though. It had been more than a year when Sexy Zone got their own fanclub, too, but KisuMai got theirs really quick. Johnny's processes are all a big mystery to me!

Really? I had basically heard the opposite; that Julie was seen more as a shoe-in, but for some reason Ijima cropped up again. She wasn't managing anyone but SMAP for a really long time-- she got Yamapi after his split from NEWS, and the same with Jin when he came back from America before he left JE, but KisuMai was her first group after SMAP as far as I know? It's all a big mystery to me, so I'm not really sure. XD; But as to dramas, that's sort of why I feel like Ijima might be getting more of a hand in Juniors. The first debut for a while that has gone to Julie has been out of Kansai. It makes me worried for 2015. I really don't want the new group to have a huge split, too.

Haha, aww, thanks, I'm flattered! XD I'd love to go into marketing for Johnny's! Haha. Sadly, I don't see that happening.

Edited at 2014-03-18 12:30 am (UTC)
ミランダ (大丈夫): Taiga: uh huhfaded_lace on March 17th, 2014 08:29 pm (UTC)
[2/2 again, oops]
As to KisuMai, I really don't know. I guess to me it feels more like they're going for something like EXILE, with singers and dancers, only 1) it's Johnny's, so that formula doesn't make sense, and 2) it's not even based on singing talent versus dancing talent, since the frontmen are good at dancing and Miyata and Senga are good at singing and Tama has like no talents (I say with love-- Tama is my favourite, but I don't pretend he's capable of remembering either the lyrics or the choreography, haha). I'm only hoping that things will get better with time, because it really breaks my heart that I just… don't really have interest in them anymore because of the way that they're marketed.

I'm sorry-- I didn't mean "comeback" in a negative way; I simply meant it to mean "before, they weren't doing activities because of Koki, and now they are able to do more activities." I'm not a KAT-TUN fan, but I have friends who are, so I hear about what they're doing from time to time, and I'm honestly just a pretty avid Johnny's fan, so I watch out for the agency in general. I guess I see KAT-TUN's situation as pretty similar to NEWS's on a shorter term… they had a member who wasn't really fitting with the group, and then when that member left, the group was able to resume doing what they do best in terms of performing and releasing music and appearing in things. KAT-TUN has done a lot since Koki left, and I think that they definitely have a good chance in the future, so I definitely didn't mean anything negative by it. As for keeping low, I assume it was just that they didn't want to make any commitments with Koki when he was illegally sharing music in clubs where he was DJing, and also because they were probably aware he might leave soon. That's only my guess though, from the management's point of view. I'm wishing them the best of luck with Shokura Premium though!

Again… sorry this got so long XD I'm really glad to find someone who's willing to have long discussions with me! But I'm sorry I just write so freaking much XD;
Nika: Jesseracanai on March 24th, 2014 07:18 am (UTC)
[1/2] Now it happens to me as well XD
Sorry for the late reply, I'm awfully lazy at the moment! ^^'

What I've learned long ago, sad as it is, is that you can't expect people to do 100% accurate work when it comes to hobby-translating and -subbing. Maybe I've just resigned to my fate on that note. I know that I can't take the translations and subs that I find for the absolute truth, but it's true what that person said, some (many?) do. As long as the translator states that (s)he isn't fluent and still learning, it's partly the fault of the readers believing it without second thought, too. Partly, I emphasize. Imo it's great if someone is willing to do none-Japanese-speakers a favour, though if they aren't that fluent they should let someone with the abilities proof-read it, just like that person said. For me not-so-good translation still give me an idea what they are talking about. Taking you're example, be it "I don't think it's okay to hit women" or "I think it's okay to hit women.", I get that they are talking about hitting women. That is what I actually meant. I mean, with the Chinese subs I was lucky to get even that! XD Even on LJ, bad translations are written in bad and/or confusing English. So people should know to take it rather at a rough topic clarification if anything. Though I have to admit that one of the decisive factors may also be that some translators aren't fluent in English which may be the actual reason for the errors- or making the ones made even worse. Imo the people willing to translate should make sure they have proper English abilities before they even think about sharing it with the international fans.

JE's strategies and processes are all a mystery. Maybe SZ have already gotten their own FC because they are a volleyball debut? To me it seems those groups are more important to the management than those who debuted inbetween.
If ABC-Z get their own FC, it hopefully won't mean less presence of them in the Shokura segments! I love the games, and whenever Ebi members participate it is way more funny than with just the Jrs. Recently I watched old Nekketsu Battles, and I wished for Kisumai to be degraded back to Jr level so they can participate again! XD

Well, fact is that those two are the candidates. I don't remember where I read Ijima was in the lead, could have been arama. If she gets another group, let's hope she will take into account what the fans say. I'm sure JE realizes what the fans think about the group splitting. What I always wonder though is why none of the pushed back members simply quits. Being openly declared second rank idols must hurt and be a blow to the self-confidence. Okay, Kisumai members all love their group, and Marius and Sou are probably still thinking it's because they are so young...

Why not? Just send them your application and tell them you'd be the perfect person for the overseas marketing! ;D
Nika: kokiracanai on March 24th, 2014 07:19 am (UTC)
[2/2] ^^
I guess Kisumai's splitting is based on someone's (Ijima's?) opinion on who looks the prettiest and will attract the most audiences. At least you're honest concerning the abilities of your favourite! Most people see their ichibans through rose-coloured glasses, and I always wonder why. Within Kisumai I like Nikaido the best, and I admit that he isn't as good a dancer as he'd like to be, and that his singing needs lots of improvememnt as well. Although he's great at rock parts, like in Kaizoku!
The group spilt annoyed me more and more, since it's even present in Busaiku (the show, not the sub-group). With the occasional exception of Kitayama. But it made me stop watching that show, and watch or read Kisumai stuff a lot less in general. I still haven't watched the whole Snowdome no Yakusoku concert, and that is the most alarming since their concerts were what I liked best about them!

Wait, what? You call yourself "just a pretty avid Johnny's fan"? *looks at all your reports* Uhm... What does that make me? XD
'Comeback' just always sounds like there has been a a longer break. ^^ Koki was always a bit *cough*very*cough* different from the usual JE idol. I knew he DJed although he wasn't allowed to, but he illegally shared music? That's new to me. I know even less about my (now former) favourite KAT-TUN member than I thought...
What I'm a bit sad about is that if I ever get the chance to see KAT-TUN live, it won't feel right when they perform their old songs. I actually had the chance to go to one of the CHAIN concerts, because a friend had tickets left over, and I was actually contemplating to borrow some money and be so crazy to fly to Japan for a few days just to see a concert, but in the end I decided against it. Had I known it was the last chance to see KAT-TUN with Koki, I guess I would have done it. I really wonder what they are going to do about the rap parts now. I don't follow NEWS, so I have no idea if their members leaving left such a big gap as well, but a situation like that just sucks in general. Although I always thought that Jin having left KAT-TUN was for the best.

Ah, don't worry! You can discuss me whatever you want, anytime! ♥ I like receving long replys, although it makes me feel bad if my answer turns out to be a lot shorter! ^^' This time I excelled myself, though! Your excessive writing is contagious! ;D
ミランダ (大丈夫): Chinen: musingfaded_lace on March 24th, 2014 11:50 pm (UTC)
I think we mostly have the same opinions when it comes to translating then. XD; Basically, I just find it hugely frustrating when I find a problem at a source and a lot of people take it as truth without a second thought, whether the problem is bad English or bad Japanese. I definitely think it's awesome and really admirable that people want to help, but sometimes helping is best done in other ways-- one example is typesetting. If I had more time, I'd be happy to translate dramas or something, but I absolutely cannot sub-- it takes me about an hour to do 3 or 4 minutes of typesetting, so for an hour-long episode of a 12 episode drama, it would take me 20 hours to do one episode and 240 hours to do the whole series! But there are people who are much better than me who can sub quickly. I feel like people think the only way to help is by doing the translations themselves, or the only way to get ~glory and ~credit is by doing the translations themselves, but really, I feel like they could put that desire to help to a better use. But I really pretty much think we agree on the topic-- unfortunately there's not much you can get out there, but it would be nice if there was some quality control.

I don't think that's necessarily true, because KisuMai got their own fanclub faster than any debut I've heard of. I just think that volleyball debuts and non-volleyball debuts are fundamentally different. Volleyball debuts tend to be a harvesting of juniors with presence outside of the agency and adding a handful of new faces to make the group fresh. They tend to be marketed towards more general audiences-- teenage girls, people who watch TV, people who are interested in pop music in general. They build a strong fanbase by luring in new people as well as carrying fans of the established juniors. On the other hand, non-volleyball debuts are always already established junior groups (in the case of Johnny's West, two groups combined, but my point holds). They have a strong fanbase within Johnny's, and debut on this popularity, expanding outward after debut. Not sure if any of this ties in with fanclubs, but I do think that ABC-Z is a special case either way. As far as I can tell, Johnny debuted them because they asked nicely, and has never really planned on treating them like a normal group. They only do video releases, which means that they don't ever make it onto the Oricon charts or into the public eye. In short: Johnny's doesn't have to spend much money on marketing or stake their reputation on them while still raking in DVD sales from the established Johnny's fans. I get the feeling that the management doesn't think they have what it takes to succeed as "idols," so they're approaching it from a more Tackey & Tsubasa-esque angle; not very much marketing and not many CD releases, but rather, more attention put into visuals, stage productions, and their personal talents (like dance and acrobatics) in order to not spend too much money on them but slowly build up a fanbase of admirers of their talents rather than obsessive teen girls who are in love with them. This is all just my guess, of course, but I spend wayyy too much time thinking about these things, ahahaha.

I really think they don't quit because… what's their other option? If you look at the history of debuted Johnny's talents who have quit, it's always been because they wished to pursue a non-idol path (for example, Mori from NEWS wanted to go into rock music, Jin wanted to pursue an American music career, and Matchy waaaay back in the day wanted to become a pro racer.) I don't think that SMY2 or MariSou really wish to pursue any career besides as idols, so even if they did want to leave their groups, they really don't have that choice right now. What bothers me about the MariSou situation is that Sou is actually much much closer in age to Shori than he is to Marius; Marius is actually the outlier. Right now, Shori is 17, Sou is 16, and Marius is only 13. Yet Sou continues to be lumped in with Marius for reasons unknown. It's incredibly frustrating to me as a fan. >__<;

Hahaha, thank you XDD Maybe I'll try that if teaching doesn't work out!
ミランダ (大丈夫): Fuma: hmmfaded_lace on March 24th, 2014 11:51 pm (UTC)

Yeah, I guess that must be the case too, but it just seems odd considering some Johnny's who are amazingly popular and, in my opinion, really aren't very facially attractive. I mean, I know everyone has her own opinion, but to me, Nikaido is way more attractive than Fujigaya, similar to the way Shige is way more attractive than Yamapi but yet Yamapi was always the most popular when he was in NEWS, and Aiba is way more attractive than Nino, but Nino remains more popular than Aiba. I'll never really understand what makes people see some Johnny's as attractive… but that's what I usually like about Johnny's? I like that people with unique or not "traditionally handsome" faces can still shine, and that groups are made up of a bunch of different types rather than them all looking the same. But then when you group them based on someone's arbitrary decision of who's "attractive," it just ruins it. STAHHHP IJIMA. XD;;

My best friend likes Nika best too! But yeah, the split basically made me stop being a KisuMai fan very much. :/ I used to love them, but now besides seeing them live (the one remaining enjoyable thing about them), I don't really have much interest anymore. It makes me really sad (and actually, I've cried while watching their old Junior stuff, especially Daybreaker… >__>) but it makes me sadder to watch the way things are now. Which is why I hate Ijima! XD

Hahaha oops… sorry XD; I'm a weirdly obsessive fan, actually. XD; But sorry, I really didn't mean anything negative towards KAT-TUN. I'm not their fan, but I respect them for what they do! And with Koki there are all sorts of rumours floating around on 2chan and stuff, who knows if they're true or not… but I guess either way the agency didn't feel they could trust him? Who knows. We'll never know what happened with that whole mess, but I think Koki handled it really gracefully, at least. He seems like a really nice guy even if he did do some pretty irresponsible things.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Luckily, I'm not a big fan of any groups that have had significant losses-- Ryutaro had solo lines, but he didn't have a specific talent like rap, so it's no big deal in terms of JUMP. With NEWS, I think the biggest problem is that Yamapi and Nishikido were the most popular members, so they had a lot of solo lines. But really, honestly, it seems mostly like it worked in their favour since they were sort of able to make a clean break from all their issues in the past. NEWS seems sort of like the group that had 8 years of false starts to me, since Uchi and Kusano's deal led to the hiatus and Yamapi and Nishikido's popularity gain over the rest of the others since Yamapi did solo activities and Nishikido had Eito. Then Nishikido and Yamapi's other work took precedence and NEWS couldn't ever do anything, so really, them leaving allowed for them to start over from a clean slate in my opinion. They even renamed their fans! XD;

Awesome! I'm really happy to hear that. I love discussion, so I'm always really glad when I have friends who feel the same way. And no worries if your replies aren't as long. I'm happy to discuss at all! ♥
Nika: thinkingracanai on April 3rd, 2014 06:04 am (UTC)
Almost! I give points for trying, but I guess that's because I'm on the I-DESPERATELY-NEED-SUBS side. XD
Subbing really is timeconsuming, I guess that's why there aren't that many people who are willing to do only that part. On the other hand, some want to do everything by themselves. I was planning on checking out a subbing program, but I still haven't gotten around to trying. I have the feeling it will take a looot of time since I'm a slow learner.

And again, you have a great overview of the marketing strategies! You should work in that field! ;D I know about the 'debut rules', but I have never realized the groups are promoted differently based on the kind of debut.
Oh, Ebi are still stuck on DVDs? I don't follow them, but I knew they made their debut via DVD, and I thought by now they would release CDs as well. Well, whenever they appear on Shokura they seem happy, and that's important! Maybe they don't have their own fanclub because of this situation? Although they were already popular when they were still Jrs, with EbiKisu and all that.

Matchy quit? I never knew! XD Well, I guess quitting would also be an option if you don't want to do the whole idol thing. E.g. Sakurai Sho would decided he'd rather be only a newscaster and talkmaster instead of standing on the stage. (I know he would never leave Arashi; he's just the first person that came to mind.) Well, Ikuta Toma is still a Johnny's talent although he does nothing but acting, but someone in that situation could also quit. Or someone who is pushed to the sides and would rather stand in the front, or doing their own music. Take Taka from One OK Rock; he might have been kicked out, but that was the best that could have happened to him, because as a JE idol he couldn't shine like he does. So even if you leave JE you can still work in the industry. Not in the same way, but that might be the better outcome in the end.
Ah yes, Sou! I tend to forget that he's only a year younger than Shori. The reason why he's put with Marius seems simple: Shori is the leader (as far as I understood), and FumaKen just belong together. Leaves, aside from the youngest, only Sou to be pushed to the back.
Nika: thinkingracanai on April 3rd, 2014 06:04 am (UTC)

That's the thing, isn't it? JE decideds who are the most attractive members and pushes them the most, and somehow an alarmingly large part of the audience just takes that opinion as 'the truth'. I fully agree with you in terms of who is the better looking in the comparisons you made, but it seems a lot of fans don't give it a second thought and don't build their own opinion. Of course there are fans who truly find Fujigaya and YamaPi the most attractive members of their group, a large number I bet, but to me it looks like JE dictates what the ideal of attractiveness is, and the audience just adapts it as 'their own opinion'. Or maybe the general Japanese ideal man (that sound weird) is different from our view?

It's less than in the PVs, but isn't the group split evident in conderts as well? When I watched their concerts for the first time I wished I could see them live one day, but with how things are right now I'm not the sure I want that anymore. :/
Recently I watched a new episode of Kisumai Busaiku (because it was subbed), and although it's (supposedly) their own doing for what they get judged, I can't help to notice Tamamori and Fujigaya taking the top spots every time. At least Kitayama doesn't make the top three everytime. I wonder if maybe those three being the most popular still has an effect on the comments even though the 100 women aren't Kisumai fans.

I'd say Koki just wanted to live life they way he wanted, and had his problems accepting the strict rules set up by the agency. He has never been really idol-like, and in the past he's done all kind of stuff which got him in the yellow press. Whatever the reason was that this time JE decided to not ignore it. In the end it may be the best outcome for Koki, because he mentioned he wanted to have children for years, and now he can go and find a wife. In the promotion for his movie he looks happy as well.

For NEWS it indeed seems like the best outcome to have lost all those members. They renamed their fans? Somehow that's really cute! Like they have the feeling that this is the group they should be now! ^^

Ugh, my replies are really late! I'm so sorry! m-_-m But I do like discussions!
Can I friend you, btw? ^^
ミランダ (大丈夫): Chinen: musingfaded_lace on April 7th, 2014 08:51 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I guess that's mostly what bothers me about a lot of subbers. It seems like it's more about ego and less about helping people. *shrug* My opinion probably isn't going to change anything, though XD; And there are definitely a lot of good people out there with good Japanese who are helping, so what are you going to do XD;

Ahaha thanks XD; I'm just a Johnny's wota, I guess. I pay way too much attention to the way the system works in order to better understand the agency as a whole because I'm really, really uncool. XD;;;

Yup, Ebi released one album so far with 0 new songs (all were B-sides from the DVDs) and it did abysmally. But Ebi's debut really seemed like it was about job security, so if they're happy, then I'm happy for them! They're really a special case, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see in terms of a fanclub and stuff XD;;

Yeah! Matchy quit to be a pro-racer but then came back. XD;;; But that was sort of my point-- I think that SYM2 really DO want to be idols, so quitting isn't an option for them. It doesn't really matter if you can work in the same industry… as you said yourself, not in the same way. Taka is able to shine in One OK Rock because that's what he wanted to do and he enjoys being in a rock band, but if you're an idol and want to be an idol and don't want to be a rock band member or just an actor or just a singer, you really really want to be an idol, and quit just because of popularity and management, isn't that the same thing as giving up? I don't think that more fame or more money could possibly make up for compromising your own personal happiness. So I think when you say that might be the better outcome in the end, I don't really agree with you. It might objectively be a better outcome in terms of money or fame, but not in terms of that person's dream.
ミランダ (大丈夫): Juntoshi: captivatedfaded_lace on April 7th, 2014 08:52 pm (UTC)
I think the fundamental problem with that model is the "necessity" of having subgroups at all. I agree that that's the way they choose to break down the group, but I don't think that it's a requirement. They're a small group; there's really no need to divide them that way. I do think that there's hope for the future for their dynamic to get better, but I don't agree that it needs to be a Shori->FumaKen->MariSou pyramid. Frankly, I hate the FumaKen combi anyway, and would like to see the whole thing switched up, but that's just my opinion. XDD

I agree with you 100% on JE deciding who's attractive and who's not and people just following. That's what really makes me the most frustrated of all. In my opinion, to love a member, or a group, you have to embrace their bad sides as well, and to like someone just based on the agency saying they're attractive is really frustrating. I think Fujigaya has a lot of talents and draws about him, but he's just plain unattractive, and there's no way I could honestly call myself his fan and ignore that fact. (I'm not his fan at all, but I'm just giving an example. XD) It's one thing for the people who honestly think that he is attractive, but isn't it more honest and better to embrace both someone's faults and someone's talents? Tama is my favourite member of Kisumai, and while he is pretty and a great actor, he's dumb as rocks and can't remember choreography or lyrics to save his life. But that's okay! I love him because of the bad and the good! I don't know if that's a weird view, but liking someone only because Johnny's told you they're handsome just seems so superficial to me.

The split is definitely evident in concerts, but I guess there's just a better aura seeing them live and seeing their energy? Seeing them live is basically the only way I'd want to see them because there's no camera angles or anything involved. In PVs or even concert DVDs, the management and editing crew can choose who they show, but live, I can watch who I want. And I do think the split is lessened by the interactions of the guys themselves. I can't even bear to watch Busaiku, but there was definitely the episode of HamaKisu back in the day when they went around on the street asking people to name them and more people could only name KiFT. Almost no one could name any of SMY2, and I think literally no one named Yokoo at all. So yeah. I definitely think it has an effect and it's really upsetting and frustrating.

Yeah, it's unfortunately that he couldn't come to a better resolution, like choosing to end his contract when it came up, but it does seem like he'll be happier this way. I hope the other four members can come together and focus all on the same goal and do better this way, too.

I totally agree about NEWS! And yes! I actually don't know what the old name is, but as of the 4-member renewal, they renamed their fans "pana" as in "Chankapana." Apparently "Chankapana" was a coined word they made up to mean "we love our fans" or something like that. Super cute, right? I'm really happy for NEWS now. It makes me want to become their fan XDD

No worries! I'm sorry I'm always late, too! But I'm really enjoying this discussion!

And yes, definitely! Let's be friends! Actually… I thought we already were friends LOL. Oops!